Answer to JWS
Dear JWS,
A scriptural criticism? Is this a first? No, not really. Other people have offered scriptures out of context to defame campus preachers. I want to address your comments individually and try to explain more clearly the scriptures you don't think I know. I appreciate your attempt at trying to build a reasoned argument, however, in order to do so, you first had to ignore vast amounts of scripture.
In the building of the argument, you have revealed very clearly the state of your heart, which I will discuss at the end. Just so you will be aware of this response, I not only am going to post it on the web, I am also going to email it to you.
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Observation 1: from all the letters that I have read on your web page, and all the reviews of Universities you have preached at, not one mention of any one being born again.
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Response: This is true. The reason is that the web site is not an "evangelistic platform". The purpose of the web site is to address the many issues and responses generated by open air preaching. Issues like the ones you raise. An evangelist is a person, not an Intel Pentium II chip. Jesus said to go and to preach. A Packard Bell can't do that. But the web site can collect and address the muck that the preaching of Jesus always stirs up.
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Conclusion 1: If one were preaching Christ according to Christ, then there would be fruit (men coming to Christ).
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Response: There have been literally thousands saved through this ministry. The problem is that they don't come to YOU to testify, they come to US. In addition to those saved, we have influenced hundreds into the ministry. I stopped actively preaching in 1984 and still get emails from people that have either been saved or entered into the ministry because of my influence. In your honor, I will be setting up a page on the site where I will post only those communiqués that qualify as to fruit. Now, I have not kept a file of these, but I have asked Jed if he has such a book of remembrance. Check back in from time to time, IF you really are interested in being a fruit inspector.
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Philippians 1:15-16 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill (not Jed). The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, NOT SINCERELY, supposing to add affliction to my chains.
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Response: This passage speaks of active intentions. If you want to use it, feel free. However, simply quoting a scripture does not equate to conviction of the passage. Again this passage speaks of active intentions, not the results of public preaching. This passage addresses conflict within the body. Whose chains are we INTENDING to add to? Who exactly are we envious of? What is the nature of the strife? Give me their names of the people we are so grievously wounding, if you can. Paul knew their names. What is the object of the selfish ambition? Whose ministry are we trying to rob. What financial gain are we intent on? Who are we trying to discredit, and in what ministry? Who are we trying to gain advantage over? Which man of God are we trying to depose?
The difference between us and you is that we judge according to evidence - the words that come out of YOUR heart. You brought up the subject of judging fruit. Jesus said in Matthew 12:33-37: "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
The fruit that will be judged is your words - what you defend and what you attack. When you judge someone who is preaching repentance and obedience to God based on the rejection of those who hate Him (whose rejection we are told by Jesus to expect), you expose your own heart. More on that later.
Furthermore, concerning the passage you try to use to condemn Jed, Paul's conclusion was: "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.". Now, if you were correct in your understanding of the passage, which you are not, your Christian response should have been to rejoice - not to condemn. More on that later.
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Observation 2: Jed likes to talk about himself (especially how he is so irresistable to women) I have numerously heard this with my own ears.
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Response: I know nothing of this charge. I've known Jed since 1977, and whatever you are alluding to is not in his character. I do know that there are a number of crowd techniques that Jed uses. Perhaps this is one of them - like the story of Dick, Jane and Sally.
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Conclusion 2: 1 Timothy 6:4-5 ..he is PROUD, knowing nothing, but is OBSESSED with DISPUTES and ARGUMENTS over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a MEANS OF GAIN. FROM SUCH WITHDRAW YOURSELF!
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Response: How you tie these last three together is beyond me. This passage addresses the problem of false teachers in the church. The evidence of such a teacher in the church is disputes, arguments, strife, revilings, etc. But IN THE CHURCH, mind you! There have always been men of evil ambitions infiltrating the church.
They see the church as a way to acquire wealth or power. These are men like Jim Jones, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart. They are the TV preachers whose main emphasis is raising money. Feel free to withdraw yourself from these men.
There are not supposed to be disputes, arguments, strife, revilings in the church. But the exact opposite is what Jesus said would happen when He sent them out to preach.
Here is the most crucial passage on open air preaching in the Bible. Now I know it is almost a WHOLE chapter, and your attention span might not be that long, but I strongly recommend, if you want to understand what we do in a Biblical fashion, that you read it all carefully, starting in Matthew 11:5:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorra in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
11:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
What is this saying as concerning your judgment of Jed? What you are seeing and condemning is exactly what Jesus said would happen. If He told us to preach and to expect this kind of reaction, who in God's creation are YOU to use that to condemn the preacher. In Jesus' own words they are doing it because they hate Him. If you ally yourself with those who by their actions expose their hatred of God, how can I avoid the conclusion that you also hate God? Just because you say you know Jesus doesn't necessarily make it so.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
For your instruction, I have underlined the passage above in verses 34-39. This is Jesus' stated purpose in preaching. It is what He WANTS to happen when he sent the disciples out to preach. It is His goal. It is His wish. It is what He specifically came to do. When He said For I am come... then I know it was what he was sent by the Father to do .
Your claim to Christianity is doubtful at best when you judge that Jesus' stated objective is essentially evil. If you won't even listen to Jesus Himself, but judge His servant to be doing evil when exactly what He said would happen does happen, you can't possibly be a lover of the Lord.
If you had been in His day, and seen the crowds milling around trying to kill Him, or later trying to kill Paul and all the other preachers, you would have joined in. Your judgment is based on the evil rejection of the God haters. You are more concerned about their state of offense toward God than about God's state of offense towards them.
By your standard, Jesus was wrong also because He alienated them enough to produce His own death. In judging the campus preachers to be wrong because the world rejects them, you judge the Lord Himself, and are one with those who killed Him. In judging this way, you expose your own heart as being filled with the love of the world, and not the love of the Lord.
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Comments: A man named Kevin in a letter to Jed, made a comment about his followers and self-exaltation. The web master sharply stated "that this does not exist". Webmaster what web pages were you thinking of. The ones you supposively mastered claim "Jed is the number one preacher in America". (Blessed are the meek Mt 5:5.) The front page also talks about Jed-heads like those who FOLLOW the greatful dead. Read it, you wrote it!
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Response: A statement of fact is not self-exaltation. Indeed, Jed is the number one campus evangelist in the US. He has been at it longer than anyone, has preached on more campuses than anyone else, has the largest number of supporters... I've been preaching since 1976, and know a good deal of the campus preachers in the whole country. When I started preaching, I didn't know if there was anyone else in the world doing what I was doing. At that time there may have been 6 in the whole country, and I knew them all. I have been in the "circle" for a long long time.
Self-exaltation it would be, if these facts were not true, or if Jed had asserted them. You can't just pull pejorative words out and throw them around willy-nilly as if by the assertion of an accusation you have thereby proven it. You need to read your dictionary more often. By the way, "supposively" is not a word. The word is "supposedly".
As far as the Jed-heads quote, it was taken from the Mustang Daily, California State Polytechnic University. I didn't write it. Do you object to our using quotes from other sources? That would be a criticism that I could consider if you had some legitimate purpose, like furthering the effectiveness of the web site or the ministry. But your intention is to condemn, so I am not convinced that quoting others is wrong. The fact that we use complimentary quotes on the front of the site does not accrue opprobrium to the ministry. After all, we do allow negative criticism onto the site as well. Now, if we didn't publish the negative side, like your posting, then would the criticism be justified. You can't have it both ways.
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Also, Kevin asked you a yes or no question. The question said something to the extent that is it Christ like to insult, call names, accuse and so, forth. O.k. where in the word of God, did Jesus ever FALSELY call someone of being a homosexual. Every time Jed preaches he falsely accuses people of being homosexuals especially believers. It seems as though you all have a pre-occupation with homosexuals. Hmmm! Where in the word did the Lord dwell on the issues of homosexuals. Of course this is an abomination, but to practically make a ministry that calls everyone and their mother a homosexual is this God's will. Webmaster you answered yes to his question. Webmaster please read your bible.
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Response: While it is true that Jesus did not deal with the issue of homosexuality, it is also understandable. Jesus began His ministry at the tail end of a national revival preached by John. The masses went out to John, who preached nothing but repentance, but the religious people, the self-righteous, belittled John. If indeed the perversion of homosexuality were prevalent in Jesus' day (there is no evidence that it was), then it was dealt with by John. Jesus' controversy was with the hypocrites more than anything. Even the woman caught in adultery was not addressing adultery but hypocrisy.
Jesus did touch on the subject of homosexuality when He re-affirmed the judgment of God against Sodom and Gomorra in Matthew 10:15, 11:23-24; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:12, 17:29. Peter and Jude also re-affirmed in 2 Peter 2:6, and Jude 1:7. But here is an interesting twist.
In almost every mention of the destruction of those two cities, Jesus is saying that the judgment of those who reject the preachers He sends out will be much worse that the judgment of those two cities. One of two things is true. Either Jed is sent by God, or he is not.
If he is not sent by God, Jesus said this: "But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
But if he is sent by God, it will be better for those perverts than for you in the day of judgment.
Now concerning calling people names. Jesus never FALSELY called anyone anything, and for that matter, I am not aware that we have either. Your assertion that this has happened is not enough. Did Jed accuse you of homosexuality? Are you? Have you ever had sex with a man? I was often accused of this sort of thing when I preached, always without foundation. We have a saying in the preaching ministry. "If you throw a shoe into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit." People only yelp when we attack something they love.
You asked if it is Christ-like, where in the scriptures, blah,blah,blah... Here are the places.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 15:26-27 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Matthew 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Luke 24:25-26 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Luke 11:40-44 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
Homosexuality is is just one sin out of many that we preach against. One overarching truth in life is that we only defend that which we love. We will not defend what we hate. Your offence that we preach hard against that particular evil is evidence in the court of God about the state of your heart. You will be judged by your words. Were you to be in front of me preaching saying these things I would judge that either you were a practicing homo trying to cloak himself in the mantle of the church, or that you are a closet homo who may not practice, but nonetheless is tempted toward that sin because it is ATTRACTIVE to you.
Remember this, that nowhere in the scripture does God EVER afford honor to a sinner. When we preach, a sinner has only two choices, repentance and honor, or unrepentance and shame.
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You yell at people that they don't even know the fundamentals of Christianity. Kind of ironic isn't it.
We have a ministry at a campus and many have found Christ as their Lord and Savior. And no we don't preach feel good christianity. Neither do we preach be saved and keep sinning. We do preach Christ, not "ourselves". This is why many do not get saved in your ministry. You spend more time in your reviews talking about how many people ridicule you and how many "one-liners" you can say back to them, than you do talking about those that have found Jesus. The fact of the matter is
not many find Jesus through you.
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Response: In the court of God, I would at this point stand up and say, "Objection your honor, this statement is speculation on things that the witness has no knowledge of." Then the Lord would say, "Sustained". You have no way of knowing such a fact. We on the other hand have such knowledge, and we can categorically state you are a liar.
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And one more note, you honestly (Jed, web master, bro Cope, and who ever in this ministry) think you are all perfect? You mean to say, that from the day you were saved (if there was a day) you have never faulted. Most definitely we should live perfect lives but to say that one other than Christ is completely perfect is heresy. I have seen Jed loose his temper. The Lord had righteous anger, He didn't foolishly lose His temper as I have seen Jed. Jed has lost his patience.
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Response: Concerning perfection, Jesus commands us to be perfect in Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Further, concerning perfection, the scriptures say in Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. If the Bible says were are supposed to be perfect and that by one offering it already has been done, your judgment is irrelevant.
The subject of perfection is the first thing I ever studied in the Bible. When I got saved, I tried to reason out what was the acceptable level of sin. I read and re-read the Bible, and could come to the only conclusion that an honest reading of the scriptures would allow - NONE!
There are literally HUNDREDS of passages dealing with the subject of perfection, through out the old and new testaments. It took a long time to read them all, let alone to come to understand them. I suggest that you get out a KJV concordance, open to perfect and all it's permutations, and start to read them. Take notes, look at cross references. Put yourself out. Perfection is the next step up from the elementary doctrines of Christ.
Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
From your writings, it is clear you neither understand what perfection is, nor want to have it in your life. You first have to understand Jesus' perfection. In the KJV, find out what scriptures deal with the perfection of Jesus. If you don't understand this, you will never understand how Jesus could command us to be perfect. While I deeply doubt that finding the truth is on your agenda, if you should ask, I would be willing to give you some hints.
Also look up the many men that the Bible attests to as having been perfect. Remember, the Bible instructs us to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Tim 2:15 I've studied the scriptures for years. You apparently have not.
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Jed has used phrases like , " I bet she is nothing more to you than a piece of ...". I promise Christ would never speak in this way.
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Response: Not so, not so. Again your ignorance of the Bible is astounding. In the Old Testament, it was Jesus who spoke to and through the prophets. In addition to the harsh words Jesus used in the New Testament (remember, calling someone a fool endangered you to hell-fire), you also need to look at what He said before His incarnation, when he existed as very God.
In Ezekial 23, the Bible records Jesus saying this:
Ezekial 23:1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.
12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men portrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion,
15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:
16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea. (Pornography and lust)
17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.
In this passage, taking in the difference of language, Jesus is saying exactly what you think He never would say. He talks about her breasts being squeezed, He talks about how she defiled herself with pornography and then sent for lovers to come to her. He talks of multiple sexual partners, pouring out their semen on her. In the end he accuses Aholibah of doting on her paramours because of the size of their penises and the amount of semen they could squirt.
The word translated flesh is:
1320. basar, baw-sawr'; from H1319; flesh (from its freshness); by extens. body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man:--body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin.
For you college students, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, the word "pudenda" means "the external genital organs of either sex"
Quoting from Holman's Bible Dictionary:
ISSUE KJV term referring to offspring (Gen. 48:6; Isa. 22:24; Matt. 22:25; compare 2 Kings 20:18; Isa. 39:7) or to a bodily discharge. The KJV applied issue to male pathological discharges such as that associated with gonorrhea (Lev. 15:2-15), to normal menstruation (Lev. 15:19-24), and to female pathological discharges (Lev. 15:25-30; Matt. 9:20). Normal discharges resulted in ritual uncleanness for one day which was removed by simple washing. Pathological discharges resulted in uncleaness until seven days after the return to full health and required an atoning sacrifice. In Ezekiel 23:20 the seminal emission of stallions is one element in a graphic depiction of Judah's idolatry.
In Ezekial 16:23-25 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;) That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street. Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
Friend, Jesus said that Jerusalem "spread the legs to everyone passing by to play the whore". You can't promise that Jesus wouldn't talk this way because you don't know what you are talking about.
I rest my case. If it is a sin for Jed to use strong words to condemn sin, then Jesus sinned also.
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Wrap up: You lead men astray, not into the kingdom. Not because you preach against sin, I preach it, the Lord preached it, all believers should preach it. But because you ridicule and antagonize compared to convicting men of their sins. The Holy Spirit will convict men of their sins when Christ is preached. The Holy Spirti will not convict when Jed Smock falsely accuses and ridicules men. However, the devil will take advantage of your "miss the mark" style of preaching.
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Response: Now you are leaping over tall buildings of illogic in a single bound. Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself can not stand. If we preach repentance and obedience toward God, then is Satan's kingdom divided. Satan isn't as stupid as you.
From the very beginning, Satan's message has been, "You can sin and not die". Gen 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:". Contrary to what God said in Gen 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
It is impossible to preach against sin, to uphold God's judgment, to call people to obedience to God, and yet serve the devil.
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For the record, no where have I defended unbelievers or sin, as you so readily accuse.
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Response: That is not so. What you have done is just that. You have made reference several times to the reaction that Jed gets. You mentioned the arguing, the debate, the division, judging, antagonizing the sinners, yelling at people, calling them names, etc. You are upset by how the world reacts to Jed's preaching. You've told me so. You are not upset because these sinners hate God. You are not upset because these blasphemers slander a Holy God. You are not even upset because the wicked are flaunting their evil before all the world as if they should be proud of the abominations that they do. You are upset because these haters of God might be offended or antagonized.
Let me use a parable on you. Say I put a dab of super glue on my one palm and then folded my hands in front of me. How would you be able to tell if my hands were glued together? The only way you could tell is if I tried to pull them apart. Then and only then would the glue become apparent.
Why do you think that Jesus said up in Matthew 11:34-39 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
This passage was very part of the commandment to preach. He stated His goal is to bring division. Why do you think He would want to brink division? There is a blinding relationship between the people that God wants to save and the world. That problem is defined in several places in the scriptures.
We are called out of the world:
2 Cor 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you".
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Preaching divides. It sets Christ far apart from the world. It creates an impassable gulf between God and the world. It requires you to leave the one side completely to go to the other side. It pulls your hands apart and exposes the super glue binding you to the world. All those people who harbor love for the world in their heart while trying to serve God are placed into a furnace. The fire is the conflict between the wickedness of men and the grace of God.
When the chasm opens up, those who want both the world and Christ are put into a serious dilemma. The Christ that they profess is being slandered by the world they covet. The reaction can be only one of three things. This is a universal based on decades of preaching.
The first is for the "Christian" to recognize that what they are feeling is the reproach of Christ and to recognize that in that state of wide polarization, they are feeling ashamed to be called a Christian. Then follows repentance. They see the ties exposed and repent of them.
The second is to harden their hearts and to rise up to defend the sinners against the preachers. They fly off in a fit of self-righteousness thinking that they are doing God a service by "exposing" this charlatan. They think that God is somehow concerned about insulting the sensibilities of His enemies. This is the most wicked that a supposed "Christian" can get. I doubt at that point that they are even saved. Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Any one who takes a public stand against the preaching of Jesus, or who justifies a sinner caught in our cross-hairs is an abomination to the LORD.
You are in the third group; they try to repair the breach, to bring the two sides back together so that they can continue to straddle the divide. This is ALWAYS manifested as an attempt to convince the preacher that he/she is going about this the wrong way, that the preaching is turning people off not on, that it is counter productive to what we intend to do. Those individuals never seem to know just exactly what we are trying to do.
We are TRYING to bring that division, just as Jesus instructed. We want you to choose to follow Christ with all your heart, not just part. Unless the enmity between the world and Christ is the context for that choice, it is doubtful you will be able to cast off all the strings that bind you to the world. In the beginning, converts would be paraded up and down the streets of Jerusalem and then publicly baptized. Those so converted KNEW they were accepting a death sentence. And they were willing. When was the last time you laid your life on the line for Jesus? Jed does so every day.
We are not responsible for the flood of wretchedness that flows out of the mouths of the students. We didn't place it there. According to Jesus, it comes out of their mouths because it is already in their hearts. Preaching makes it come out the mouth. That is what preaching is supposed to do. We are responsible for bringing it out into the open. Exactly what do you think is meant by being "convicted" by the Holy Spirit. Preaching is a form of trial by fire. Those on trial convict themselves by their own words.
Jesus says in John 3:19-21 they reject this message because they love their sin: "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
You have been put in the fire and melted. The garbage that floated to the top is the love of the world. Without argument, you will never find a preacher in the Bible being worried that the sinners might be offended.
You are an idolater because you aren't willing to forsake the world to serve Christ. Jesus commands you to REPENT. He says you are not worthy to go by His name in Mathew 11:37-39 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Now is your time to repent.
Bro Cope, webmaster
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